Research Realm:Discussion archives

WIP, stuff just copied from discord convos for now I'm actually going to make this an archive of discussions about the site's goals and have an edited page elsewhere.

Messages from 17 January 2023

Introductory message

This channel is for discussing anything related to the Wiki, such as writing articles, editing articles, correcting articles, contributing etc.

This description will update if we have some sort of style guide. For now, the guidelines so far are:

• Stay objective. No subjective sentences or opinions. Certain smaller jokes might be okay.
• Create new wiki pages for a topic when there is a decent amount of information on it. For example, we have a lot of information about Rock Raiders' prototypes, so they should only be described briefly on the "Rock Raiders" theme's page, but expanded on a dedicated "Rock Raiders prototypes" page (name pending)
• The structure of the Wiki should follow a hierarcy, similar to Bricklink. You should be able to navigate from a page about 1999 as a year down to a Rock Raiders part that was released in that year. As an example, the Rock Raiders theme could branch like this:

• Rock Raiders (Theme)

• Minifigures
  • Chief (one page per character)
  • Axle
  • More minifigs...
• Sets
  • Main sets (each set in the series is linked individually)
  • Promotional sets
• Introduced parts (each part has its own page)
  • 71612cx1 Chrome Drill
  • 30298 Roll Cage
    • Observed mould numbers
    • Mould variations
    • Prototypes
    • Found in which sets? (lot of work, maybe not needed)
  • More parts...
• History and development
  • Prototypes
  • Information on years of development etc
  • Cancelled sets
  • Changes over time?
• Legacy
  • What remains of the theme today

— Klavvy (Baraklava), 17 January 2023

How to write about sets

Probably the number one question I have, since this is a Lego focused project: What's the best way to handle set articles? I remember hearing someone complain about Brickipedia (among many things) that it having a page for every single set ever was unnecessary when things like Brickset already exist, and since hearing that I kinda agreed and wondered what the best way to fix that would be.

Ringtail Raider, 17 January 2023

If there is nothing more to say on the set, definitely just link to Brickset (not Brickipedia I think - their articles can be pretty messy and Brickset has more verified info)

I think if there is anything else to say about the set, it's a good idea to give it a separate page. For Rock Raiders, you'd be interested in how they work in the PC game, for example, so that's more info needed. For some sets, perhaps there are prototypes of the set that would be nice to feature. Many sets though, won't have much to add to a separate page

That said... have you guys seen the website https://www.backoftheboxbuilds.com/ ? It is unfortunately very messy, but this is something I'd love to have that's missing from the broader internet. Just pictures the box of each set in high-resolution. It would make a ton of sense to have them available in a wiki rather than a separate website just for boxes, right? And that would warrant a Wiki page for sure I think

But all of that is not very high priority, it's something that I want to do eventually. Getting a complete archive would take a lot of time. Or, if someone would have access to the Lego Vault...

You guys are more into Rock Raiders and the PC games - so I think you should focus on expanding those pages in the meantime. Things like - A main page for each game, with information on levels and things in the game - How to run the game (A separate page, optimally) - How to mod the game (A separate page, that then points to separate pages on modding specific parts) - Betas, prototypes and cut content of the game perhaps, though that is widely covered my TCRF

Again, the Realm is a vision of mine that is a bit fuzzy, and you work on the parts of the Wiki that you want. For example I would be interested in cataloguing how many mould numbers there are for each part, and when they were produced, and... everyone else probably doesn't lol. As long as it's detailed nerd information, it goes!

— Klavvy (Baraklava), 17 January 2023

What contents to include

For now I think it's best to focus on work that is not on any Wiki, if that sums it up? Running LRR is a RRU guide, it needs a Wiki page that can be maintained, modding LRR is spread across *many* RRU guides, that needs a nice Wiki page/hierarchy of pages on how to mod specific aspects of the game

TCRF focuses on cut content, sure, but I'd for example want a Wiki page discussing how to perhaps implement/activate cut content (like the Spiders and scorpions) and not just being a list of things that were cut. Trying to relate it back to the game etc, and focus on what the TCRF does not do, but Lego nerds like us would want to know

Anything that has to do with physical Lego is just my brain wanting to catalogue everything about Lego as a company and producer xD I guess the crazy end goal is having concrete info and references about most parts going back to the 1950's, things like how their processes evolved, when they changed up their colours, things like that that I think other Wikis don't cover properly. I know it's not what most of the former RRU crowd has focused on though, but it's a passion of mine and I have a ton of production prototypes and mould tests, as well as a lot of insight in the process on how a part goes from concept to production... or information that not even Lego has catalogued because they didn't think anyone would be interested

— Klavvy (Baraklava), 17 January 2023

What regional names should be used?

That's a good question that's hard to answer. I think the best answer is whatever originated in Denmark? So not necessarily the UK, nor the US, but central Europe, it seems to have always been the first avenue when it comes to naming stuff.

To me, the "official record" would be whatever it says in the Lego Vault, as most boxes there should have names on the sides, but I don't have access to that yet

If you're unsure, try to refer to boxes. Magazines frequently get things wrong (see "Sam Grant", and the misprint 4959 set etc) but Lego's official boxes are directly from the company themselves

— Klavvy (Baraklava), 17 January 2023

How much will this wiki cover?

Can we document contents of the emails or are those off limits and this is for games too not just sets right?

MrPinball64, 17 January 2023

You're still the main guy who dictates what's allowed with the emails lol, but yeah, good question... As I wrote we want to keep it objective, so perhaps leave out the rat poison stories, but keep the references to development stuff in a timeline

And yes, definitely games too. It might be hard to explain, but I say it's a site for "Lego nerd information": Have you ever met someone obsessed or interested in something Lego-related beyond your understanding? Then whatever they've researched should probably be in our Wiki. Or, if you have some information/material that just doesn't fit any other sites, the Realm is the place for them

For example Sadie really likes investigating old Lego books and such, and some books never went into production, such as the book "Alien Stone". How on Earth would someone find their way to such a page if it existed on Brickipedia? In the Realm, it would hopefully be included in a timeline of unpublished works from Lego Publishing, or similar.

And, as Sadie just mentioned: How many people are actually interested in modding the Canteen back into the game? Probably only a handful, but the Realm is for those handfuls, so documenting how to mod it back could be a good page! 😄

Both topics, while very different, have something in common: They go into very detailed information to an absurd degree - "Nerd information". Put that on Brickipedia and they'd go "That's not a commercial Lego set - removed for being irrelevant." There isn't really any other place for such information other than in the Discord chats and chat logs between us, as is currently the state.

I'm not sure if my vision of the Realm makes sense, maybe it only does to me! Hahaha

— Klavvy (Baraklava), 17 January 2023

Our mission

We got time, don't worry! RRU was kicking for roughly 10 years before things broke down and contributions stopped, we have 10 years to build something that's even more beautiful together! 🙂

and I intend the Realm to go beyond what I want it to be, if others have things they want on the Realm that might make sense to add too

I guess I could also put it this way: The mission of the Research Realm is to preserve history of all facets of Lego, no matter how small or obscure

Maybe that's a more concise summary 😛

— Klavvy (Baraklava), 17 January 2023

Using sources Wikipedia won't

This too, when it comes to obscure Lego information, they can come from obscure sources... emails, or interviews with Lego employees, or even IRL conversations that are hard to verify/prove. The Realm would be fine hosting these if the material is good enough

And, funny enough, Brickipedia's pages on obscure stuff (like their Prototypes page) is usually very much haphazard, messy and incorrect, which is why the Realm would be a good place for such things

Also something relevant to myself and other rare parts collectors would be to identify fakes, catalogue where claimed rare/prototype parts originate from, I have seen several fakes get passed around as "Prototype of/for X", and I think it'd help reduce mistakes and scams if those were properly catalogued, but that again is just something that is probably not relevant to you guys, only rare parts collectors!

Brickipedia has a pic of a super obscure LoM book, but again doesn't cite the source of it

Sadietail, 17 January 2023

That's another thing - not only sources, but the story. "Picture provided by [person]" gives nothing. Perhaps it came from a developer, and it would warrant a full interview, that can then be referenced. This is history that could potentially be lost if it's not archived properly!

— Klavvy (Baraklava), 17 January 2023

Building upon past wikis

It really would be nice to start a consistent, well cited wiki

Because every single existing project is lacking in some way, whether it's standards or being too hyperfocused on specific things and thus neglecting others

At the same time those other projects are still valuable

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it's common practice for wikis to adapt information from eachother, so it's not like we're starting from scratch

Guidelines for how pages are structured would be really nice because the multimedianess of lego has made most wikis very chaotic

Whereas something like the halo wiki is also based on something multimedia centric but it's very clean and easy to navigate because of the editing guidelines

I can already tell list of appearances sections on this wiki are gonna be really fun to look at

— EmeraldCoasttt, 17 January 2023

It has to have pages first! x3

But your input is really good, I agree! Build upon what's there but look for solid references for the information

I think the best way to start is to fill out the Rock Raiders starting page

I'm gonna pin this for reference:
https://wiki.researchrealm.net/index.php?title=LEGO_Rock_Raiders

This is a draft I made for what a page of a theme would look like, in this case Rock Raiders. Rock Raiders is a huge theme as it covers just about every type of media that Lego produces, it's very close to our hearts, and we have a ton of information on just about every facet of the theme and game. This page could thus be sort of a blueprint on what's covered, how it's covered, and if the information is put into the article itself, or just briefly and then the rest is in a separate article (i.e. 2 sentences about prototypes, then linking to a main article about "Rock Raiders prototypes/development")

Btw if any of you who don't have Wiki accounts want an account, DM me the username you want and I'll generate an account for you. I'm gonna streamline the account creation process later, but for now I want to keep the Wiki private (this page hasn't been linked outside of private chats so please don't tell anyone the Wiki is technically accessible yet, only the front page is)

— Klavvy (Baraklava), 17 January 2023

How to structure fiction

Something I think should be decided early on is how we structure characters, objects, locations, etcetera

Whether we make different forms different articles (Axle (minifigure) is one article and Axle (Character) is another) or whether these should be different sections in the same article (with sub articles if there's a significant amount to talk about)

I'm personally all for the latter, keeps things much more organized and easier to navigate

RRU Knowledge base goes for the former approach and it's just as clunky as I remember it being

— EmeraldCoasttt, 17 January 2023

Definitely the latter, we make a page for an object I guess you could say? But also context changes things, so for example with a Loader Dozer:

• On the Rock Raiders PC game page, under vehicles (or under a page on vehicles in the game), it refers to what the Loader Dozer does in game
• However the page on the Loader Dozer is of the *set*, and with a section of how it behaves in the PC game, and the page on Rock Raiders vehicles links to this section directly

I think that makes sense? If it doesn't please give feedback - everything is up for debate here and I really want the Realm to not be "my Wiki", but something we build together as Lego nerdzzzz

We'll have to do some experimentation but we're not in a hurry - and it's not like it's gonna be wasted work, it's mostly a question of where to put what words! Writing the words is the hard part, figuring out a structure is more of a "feeling" thing that will just take time rather than work

— Klavvy (Baraklava), 17 January 2023

Yeah, that makes sense! That's pretty much how it's structured on the halo wiki Barely related but it would not be hard to catalogue maps of the rock raiders levels, that'd be fun for their articles

— EmeraldCoasttt, 17 January 2023