Rec.toys.lego: Difference between revisions

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{{lowercase title|title=rec.toys.lego}}
{{Infobox website
{{Infobox website
| name = rec.toys.lego
| name = rec.toys.lego
| screenshot = PnP rec.toys.lego screenshot.jpg
| screenshot = PnP rec.toys.lego screenshot.jpg
| caption = A rec.toys.lego message from late 1994 viewed in a Windows 3.1 [[Wikipedia:Newsreader (Usenet)|newsreader]] {{circa|1995}}
| caption = A rec.toys.lego message from September 1994 viewed in a Windows 3.1 [[Wikipedia:Newsreader (Usenet)|newsreader]]
| screenshot_size =
| launch_date = {{ubl|January 1993 (ATL)|{{start date and age|1994|01|10|df=y}} (RTL)}}
| launch_date= {{ubl|January 1993 (ATL)|{{start date and age|10 January 1994}} (RTL)}}
| type = [[Wikipedia:Usenet|Usenet]] [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup|newsgroup]]
| type = [[Wikipedia:Usenet|Usenet]] [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup|newsgroup]]
| url = [news:rec.toys.lego rec.toys.lego]
| url = [news:rec.toys.lego rec.toys.lego]
| author = David Koblas (RTL)
| author = David Koblas
}}
}}
{{lowercase title|title=rec.toys.lego}}
 
'''rec.toys.lego''' (often abbreviated '''RTL''')<ref>{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/outsideinnovatio0000seyb/page/392/mode/2up?view=theater |title=Outside Innovation: How Your Customers Will Co-Design Your Company's Future |first=Patricia B. |last=Seybold |year=2006 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:HarperCollins|HarperCollins]] |ISBN=0-06-113590-9 |p=392}}</ref> is a [[Wikipedia:Usenet|Usenet]] [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup|newsgroup]] dedicated to the discussion of [[LEGO]] products and LEGO-compatible toys.<ref>{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/internetstarterk00engsrich/page/850/mode/2up?view=theater |title=Internet Starter Kit for Macintosh |edition=2nd |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Hayden Books|Hayden Books]] |year=1994 |first=Adam C. |last=Engst |ISBN=1-56830-111-1 |p=850}}</ref> It was one of the earliest online LEGO fan communities, starting in early 1993 as '''alt.toys.lego''' ('''ATL''')<ref name="Bender"/> before moving to the ''rec.*'' [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup#Hierarchies|hierarchy]] one year later.
'''rec.toys.lego''' (often abbreviated '''RTL''')<ref name="Seybold"/> is a [[Wikipedia:Usenet|Usenet]] [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup|newsgroup]] dedicated to the discussion of [[LEGO]] products and LEGO-compatible toys.<ref name="Engst"/> It was one of the earliest online LEGO fan communities, starting in early 1993 as '''alt.toys.lego''' ('''ATL''')<ref name="Bender"/> before moving to the ''rec.*'' [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup#Hierarchies|hierarchy]] one year later.


== History ==
== History ==
The alt.toys.lego newsgroup was created in January 1993.<ref name="AFOL20"/>{{efn|name=ATL}} It was the first of a number of toy-related newsgroups in the ''alt.toy.*'' hierarchy; others created later in 1993 included alt.toys.hi-tech in May and alt.toys.[[Wikipedia:Transformers|transformers]] in September.<ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.hi-tech/c/sBl0SQFCYCA/m/I5gp9BxM-8oJ |title=Create newsgroup alt.toys.hi-tech |author= USENET news |date=20 May 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.hi-tech |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240425123724/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.hi-tech/c/sBl0SQFCYCA/m/I5gp9BxM-8oJ |archive-date=25 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/7eSYCY7FFLM/m/X-gM3J57C1UJ |author=Steven Mar |title=Transformers E-Mailing List |newsgroup=alt.toys.transformers |date=12 September 1993 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240425124527/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/7eSYCY7FFLM/m/X-gM3J57C1UJ |archive-date=25 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref> ATL received continuous activity soon after its creation; however, the [[Wikipedia:alt.* hierarchy|''alt.*'' hierarchy]] was not well-propagated due to many [[Wikipedia:Dial-up Internet access|dial-up]] [[Wikipedia:Internet service provider|Internet service providers]] not offering it to subscribers. Suggestions were made in many ''alt.*'' groups to migrate to one of the [[Wikipedia:Big 8 (Usenet)|Big 7]] hierarchies.<ref name="AFOL20"/> A new LEGO newsgroup under the ''rec.*'' (recreation) hierarchy was suggested in September 1993,{{efn|A rec.toys newsgroup had previously been suggested in news.groups in April 1993, though it had not been created.<ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/pUHEuJIF3hIJ |title=Test Baloon: rec.toys |author=E. Kontei |date=23 April 1993 | newsgroup=news.groups |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427091052/https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/pUHEuJIF3hIJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>}} with the goal of making the community more accessible.<ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/1PI-5-HDGSk/m/wl6CqpCDCIYJ |title=A thought for discussion... |author=Ron Carter |date=16 September 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427091754/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/1PI-5-HDGSk/m/wl6CqpCDCIYJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/m6dXkpdZ6bY/m/nr2ZUDPDC3cJ |title=OK, how about a modified suggestion (trying to please all :-) |author=Ron Carter |date=18 September 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427095848/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/m6dXkpdZ6bY/m/nr2ZUDPDC3cJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
The alt.toys.lego newsgroup was created by David Koblas<ref name="RTL Pfeifer Koblas ATL" group="U"/> in January 1993.<ref name="Eaton AFOL 20"/>{{efn|The exact date of its creation is unknown. The earliest alt.toys.lego post archived on [[Wikipedia:Google Groups|Google Groups]] is from 18 February 1993.<ref name="ATL LaLiberte" group="U"/> An ''alt.*'' newsgroup listing from 5 February 1993 does not include alt.toys.lego;<ref name="AN alt" group="U"/> however, an archived message in alt.fan.warlord appears to reply to an ATL message dated 5 February 1993,<ref name="AFW Leverton" group="U"/> and ATL is mentioned in a news.admin.policy message from 8 February.<ref name="NAP Olivers" group="U"/> Koblas's RTL proposal from 14 October 1993 refers to ATL as having been active for nine months,<ref name="ATL Koblas proposal" group="U"/> and the FAQ post from 11 January 1994 claims ATL had existed for "almost one year".<ref name="RTL FAQ 940111" group="U"/>}} It was the first of a number of toy-related newsgroups in the ''alt.toy.*'' hierarchy; others created later in 1993 included alt.toys.hi-tech in May and alt.toys.[[Wikipedia:Transformers|transformers]] in September.<ref name="ATHt created" group="U"/><ref name="ATT email" group="U"/> ATL received continuous activity soon after its creation; however, the [[Wikipedia:alt.* hierarchy|''alt.*'' hierarchy]] was not well-propagated due to many [[Wikipedia:Dial-up Internet access|dial-up]] [[Wikipedia:Internet service provider|Internet service providers]] not offering it to subscribers. Suggestions were made in many ''alt.*'' groups to migrate to one of the [[Wikipedia:Big 8 (Usenet)|Big 7]] hierarchies.<ref name="Eaton AFOL 20"/> A new LEGO newsgroup under the ''rec.*'' (recreation) hierarchy was suggested in September 1993,{{efn|A rec.toys newsgroup had previously been suggested in news.groups in April 1993, though it had not been created.<ref name="NG Kontei" group="U"/>}} with the goal of making the community more accessible.<ref name="ATL Carter 930916" group="U"/><ref name="ATL Carter 930918" group="U"/>


On 14 October 1993, ATL user David Koblas drafted a proposal for the creation of rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc, both under a new ''rec.toys.*'' hierarchy.<ref name="RTM"/><ref name="RTL proposal">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/ihgEiC4GMpUJ |title=RFD: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc |first=David |last=Koblas |date=14 October 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego | message-id=[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427092225/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/ihgEiC4GMpUJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref> The name ''rec.toys.construction'' was alternatively suggested as a more inclusive name that would allow for discussion of other [[Wikipedia:Construction set|construction toys]]. Koblas rejected this idea, as his original intention was to increase the LEGO newsgroup's readership by moving it out of the ''alt.*'' hierarchy, and he felt that the alternate name would not appeal to ATL's readers enough to draw them away from that newsgroup.<ref name="RTM"/><ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/S0RSFxA-Yhk/m/AjU3eXYJn6UJ |title=2nd RFD: rec.toys.lego vs rec.toys.construction (straw poll vote) |first=David |last=Koblas |date=16 November 1993 |newsgroup=news.groups |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428083242/https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/S0RSFxA-Yhk/m/AjU3eXYJn6UJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref> Voting for the two new groups began on 30 November and ended on 21 December.<ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/AdX38CoNxnEJ |title=CFV: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc |author=Ed Bailey |date=30 November 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego | [email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427102402/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/AdX38CoNxnEJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="AFOL TL"/> The results were announced on 3 January 1994: 243 users voted, and both newsgroups passed overwhelmingly.<ref name="RTM"/> The new rec.toys.lego newsgroup was created on 10 January 1994 under the following [[Wikipedia:Usenet#Moderated and unmoderated newsgroups|charter]]:<ref name="AFOL TL"/>
On 14 October 1993, David Koblas drafted a proposal for the creation of rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc, both unmoderated and under a new ''rec.toys.*'' hierarchy.<ref name="Myers"/><ref name="ATL Koblas proposal" group="U"/> Koblas had originally wanted to create ATL in the ''rec.*'' hierarchy, but did not believe it would pass a vote for creation at the time.<ref name="RTL Pfeifer Koblas ATL" group="U"/>{{efn|Newsgroups in the ''alt.*'' hierarchy can be created by anyone, while those in the Big 7 (later the Big 8) require discussion and voting to be created.<ref name="Barr"/><ref name="Caroll"/>}} The name ''rec.toys.construction'' was alternatively suggested as a more inclusive name that would allow for discussion of other [[Wikipedia:Construction set|construction toys]]; Koblas rejected this idea, as his original intention was to increase the LEGO newsgroup's readership by moving it out of the ''alt.*'' hierarchy, and he felt that the alternate name would not appeal to ATL's readers enough to draw them away from that newsgroup.<ref name="Myers"/><ref name="NG Koblas" group="U"/> Voting for the two new groups began on 30 November and ended on 21 December.<ref name="ATL Bailey" group="U"/><ref name="Eaton AFOL TL"/> The results were announced on 3 January 1994: 243 users voted, and both newsgroups passed overwhelmingly.<ref name="Myers"/> The new rec.toys.lego newsgroup was created on 10 January 1994 under the following [[Wikipedia:Usenet#Moderated and unmoderated newsgroups|charter]]:<ref name="Eaton AFOL TL"/>


{{blockquote |text=To provide a forum for the discussion of all things and experiences relating to the Lego(tm), Duplo(tm) and compatible construction toys. Including interesting models that one has built, experiences one has had using legos, or questions about how to build particular components.}}
{{blockquote |text=To provide a forum for the discussion of all things and experiences relating to the Lego(tm), Duplo(tm) and compatible construction toys. Including interesting models that one has built, experiences one has had using legos, or questions about how to build particular components.}}


As it was proposed alongside RTL, the rec.toys.misc newsgroup was originally described as covering "non-Lego toys topics, from {{sic|[[Wikipedia:Barbie|Barbi]]}} Dolls to [[Wikipedia:My Little Pony|My Little Pony]] gift sets." Its charter's wording was soon altered so that it would cover all toys that did not have their own newsgroup within the ''rec.toys.*'' hierarchy, without any reference to LEGO. Many other toy-related newsgroups were created in ''rec.*'' over the following years, though some groups like alt.toys.transformers remained active in ''alt.*''.<ref name="RTM"/> ATL was largely abandoned, though it continued to exist and receive occasional posts.<ref name="AFOL20"/>
[[File:WotI Newsgroups Main Menu.jpg|thumb|rec.toys.lego seen in a list of ''rec.*'' newsgroups, {{circa|1994}}]]
 
As it was proposed alongside RTL, the rec.toys.misc newsgroup was originally described as covering "non-Lego toys topics, from {{sic|[[Wikipedia:Barbie|Barbi]]}} Dolls to [[Wikipedia:My Little Pony|My Little Pony]] gift sets." Its charter's wording was soon altered so that it would cover all toys that did not have their own newsgroup within the ''rec.toys.*'' hierarchy, without any reference to LEGO.
Within a few months, activity in rec.toys.misc had surpassed rec.toys.lego. Many other toy-related newsgroups were created in ''rec.*'' over the following years, though some groups like alt.toys.transformers remained active in ''alt.*''.<ref name="Myers"/> ATL was largely abandoned, though it continued to exist and receive occasional posts.<ref name="Eaton AFOL 20"/>


== Discussions ==
== Discussions ==
What content was discussed on RTL. Also a section about related sites, including fan sites, the reasons for LEGO.com, and LUGNET replacing RTL.<ref name="Randall"/>
== Related websites ==
Earthsea FTP, LEGO Information, RTL-Bricks, Pause, Brickshelf, LUGNET


== Notes ==
== Notes ==
{{notelist|refs=
{{notelist|refs=
{{efn|name=ATL|The earliest alt.toys.lego post archived on Google Groups is from 18 February 1993.<ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/r3QlephBq0k/m/gkN7Tr6Q6HoJ |title=Lego strategy game |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |date=18 February 1993 |author=Daniel LaLiberte |archive-date=23 April 2024 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240423104402/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/r3QlephBq0k/m/gkN7Tr6Q6HoJ |url-status=live}}</ref> An ''alt.*'' newsgroup listing from 5 February 1993 does not include alt.toys.lego;<ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.newgroup/c/Vo_Jd10lNto/m/uWKSud65ffIJ |title=Another listing of newsgroups in the "alt" Usenet hierarchy |author=The Society for Reviling ATnT |newsgroup=alt.newgroup |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428061839/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.newgroup/c/Vo_Jd10lNto/m/uWKSud65ffIJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref> however, an archived message in alt.fan.warlord appears to reply to an ATL message dated 5 February 1993,<ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.warlord/c/0tlUuNfG1mg/m/NDxvDY4pLacJ |title=Re: LegoLand in England?? |author=Nick Leverton |date=11 February 1993 |newsgroup=alt.fan.warlord |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428040859/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.warlord/c/0tlUuNfG1mg/m/NDxvDY4pLacJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live |quote=In alt.toys.lego, article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Nick Pettefar) writes...}}</ref> and ATL is mentioned in a news.admin.policy message from 8 February.<ref>{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.policy/c/oHfoOarG6Zw/m/0CpWejiaiKMJ |title=Re: Anonymous postings to non-personals newsgroups |author=Erik Olivers |date=8 February 1993 |newsgroup=news.admin.policy |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428041815/https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.policy/c/oHfoOarG6Zw/m/0CpWejiaiKMJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref> Koblas's RTL proposal from October 1993 refers to ATL as having been active for nine months.<ref name="RTL proposal"/>}}
<!--for some reason if I include a second efn nested in notelist instead of in the page text it throws an error for any references in it, even though the references in the efn above are fine?-->
}}
}}


== References ==
== References ==
{{reflist|refs=
{{reflist|refs=
<ref name="AFOL20">{{cite web |url=http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/11594/20th-anniversary-of-the-online-lego-community |title=20th Anniversary of the Online LEGO Community! |first=David |last=Eaton |date=July 25, 2013 |website=[[Brickset]] Forum |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150625050417/http://www.bricksetforum.com:80/discussion/11594/20th-anniversary-of-the-online-lego-community |archive-date=June 25, 2015 |url-status=dead}}</ref>
<ref name="Barr">{{cite web |url=http://www.math.psu.edu/barr/alt-creation-guide.html |title=So You Want to Create an Alt Newsgroup |first=David |last=Barr |year=1995 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Pennsylvania State University|Pennsylvania State University]] |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/19970124072217/http://www.math.psu.edu/barr/alt-creation-guide.html |archive-date=24 January 1997}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Bender">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/legolovestory0000bend/page/24/mode/2up?view=theater |title=LEGO: A Love Story |first=Jonathan |last=Bender |year=2010 |pages=24–25 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:John Wiley & Sons|John Wiley & Sons]] |location=[[Wikipedia:Hoboken, New Jersey|Hoboken]] |ISBN=978-0-470-40702-8}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Caroll">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/1997internethand0000carr/page/158/mode/2up?view=theater |title=1997 Internet Handbook |edition=Educational |last1=Caroll |first1=Jim |last2=Broadhead |first2=Rick |last3=Cassel |first3=Don |year=1997 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Prentice Hall|Prentice-Hall Canada, Inc]] |location=[[Wikipedia:Scarborough, Ontario|Scarborough, Ontario]] |isbn=0-13-851487-9 |pages=156, 158-161}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Eaton AFOL 20">{{cite web |url=http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/11594/20th-anniversary-of-the-online-lego-community |title=20th Anniversary of the Online LEGO Community! |first=David |last=Eaton |date=July 25, 2013 |website=[[Brickset]] Forum |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150625050417/http://www.bricksetforum.com:80/discussion/11594/20th-anniversary-of-the-online-lego-community |archive-date=June 25, 2015 |url-status=dead}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Eaton AFOL TL">{{cite web |url=http://www.suave.net/~dave/afol_history.pl?timeline=1 |title=The AFOL History Project |first=David |last=Eaton |date=10 September 2013 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210919201210/http://www.suave.net/~dave/afol_history.pl?timeline=1 |archive-date=2021-09-19 |url-status=dead}} Text is [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC BY-SA 3.0].</ref>
 
<ref name="Engst">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/internetstarterk00engsrich/page/850/mode/2up?view=theater |title=Internet Starter Kit for Macintosh |edition=2nd |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Hayden Books|Hayden Books]] |location=[[Wikipedia:Indianapolis|Indianapolis]] |year=1994 |first=Adam C. |last=Engst |ISBN=1-56830-111-1 |p=850}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Myers">{{cite web |url=https://www.toymania.com/resources/usenet/toyhist.shtml |title=A Brief History of Toy-Related Usenet Newsgroups |first=Eric G. |last=Myers |date=September 17, 1996 |website=Raving Toy Maniac |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240425105223/https://www.toymania.com/resources/usenet/toyhist.shtml |archive-date=25 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Randall">{{cite book |title=Plug-n-Play Internet |publisher=Sams Publishing |location=[[Wikipedia:Indianapolis|Indianapolis]] |first1=Neil |last1=Randall |first2=Celine |last2=Latulipe |year=1995 |url=https://archive.org/details/plugnplayinterne0000rand/page/150/mode/2up?view=theater |page=150 |ISBN=0-672-30669-7}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Seybold">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/outsideinnovatio0000seyb/page/392/mode/2up?view=theater |title=Outside Innovation: How Your Customers Will Co-Design Your Company's Future |first=Patricia B. |last=Seybold |year=2006 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:HarperCollins|HarperCollins]] |location=[[Wikipedia:New York City|New York]] |ISBN=0-06-113590-9 |p=392}}</ref>
}}
 
=== Usenet messages ===
{{reflist|group=U|refs=
<ref name="AFW Leverton">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.warlord/c/0tlUuNfG1mg/m/NDxvDY4pLacJ |title=Re: LegoLand in England?? |author=Nick Leverton |date=11 February 1993 |newsgroup=alt.fan.warlord |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428040859/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.warlord/c/0tlUuNfG1mg/m/NDxvDY4pLacJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live |quote=In alt.toys.lego, article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Nick Pettefar) writes...}}</ref>
 
<ref name="AN alt">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.newgroup/c/Vo_Jd10lNto/m/uWKSud65ffIJ |title=Another listing of newsgroups in the "alt" Usenet hierarchy |author=The Society for Reviling ATnT |date=February 5, 1993 |newsgroup=alt.newgroup |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428061839/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.newgroup/c/Vo_Jd10lNto/m/uWKSud65ffIJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="ATHt created">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.hi-tech/c/sBl0SQFCYCA/m/I5gp9BxM-8oJ |title=Create newsgroup alt.toys.hi-tech |author= USENET news |date=20 May 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.hi-tech |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240425123724/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.hi-tech/c/sBl0SQFCYCA/m/I5gp9BxM-8oJ |archive-date=25 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="ATL Bailey">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/AdX38CoNxnEJ |title=CFV: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc |author=Ed Bailey |date=30 November 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego | [email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427102402/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/AdX38CoNxnEJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="ATL Carter 930916">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/1PI-5-HDGSk/m/wl6CqpCDCIYJ |title=A thought for discussion... |author=Ron Carter |date=16 September 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427091754/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/1PI-5-HDGSk/m/wl6CqpCDCIYJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
<ref name="ATL Carter 930918">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/m6dXkpdZ6bY/m/nr2ZUDPDC3cJ |title=OK, how about a modified suggestion (trying to please all :-) |author=Ron Carter |date=18 September 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427095848/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/m6dXkpdZ6bY/m/nr2ZUDPDC3cJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="ATL Koblas proposal">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/ihgEiC4GMpUJ |title=RFD: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc |first=David |last=Koblas |date=14 October 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego | [email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427092225/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/ihgEiC4GMpUJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="ATL LaLiberte">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/r3QlephBq0k/m/gkN7Tr6Q6HoJ |title=Lego strategy game |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |date=18 February 1993 |author=Daniel LaLiberte |archive-date=23 April 2024 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240423104402/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/r3QlephBq0k/m/gkN7Tr6Q6HoJ |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="ATT email">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/7eSYCY7FFLM/m/X-gM3J57C1UJ |author=Steven Mar |title=Transformers E-Mailing List |newsgroup=alt.toys.transformers |date=12 September 1993 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240425124527/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/7eSYCY7FFLM/m/X-gM3J57C1UJ |archive-date=25 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="NAP Olivers">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.policy/c/oHfoOarG6Zw/m/0CpWejiaiKMJ |title=Re: Anonymous postings to non-personals newsgroups |author=Erik Olivers |date=8 February 1993 |newsgroup=news.admin.policy |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428041815/https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.policy/c/oHfoOarG6Zw/m/0CpWejiaiKMJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="NG Koblas">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/S0RSFxA-Yhk/m/AjU3eXYJn6UJ |title=2nd RFD: rec.toys.lego vs rec.toys.construction (straw poll vote) |first=David |last=Koblas |date=16 November 1993 |newsgroup=news.groups |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428083242/https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/S0RSFxA-Yhk/m/AjU3eXYJn6UJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>  


<ref name="AFOL TL">{{cite web |url=http://www.suave.net/~dave/afol_history.pl?timeline=1 |title=The AFOL History Project |first=David |last=Eaton |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210919201210/http://www.suave.net/~dave/afol_history.pl?timeline=1 |archive-date=2021-09-19 |url-status=dead}}</ref>
<ref name="NG Kontei">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/pUHEuJIF3hIJ |title=Test Baloon: rec.toys |author=E. Kontei |date=23 April 1993 | newsgroup=news.groups |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427091052/https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/pUHEuJIF3hIJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>


<ref name="Bender">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/legolovestory0000bend/page/24/mode/2up?view=theater |title=LEGO: A Love Story |first=Jonathan |last=Bender |year=2010 |pages=24–25 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:John Wiley & Sons|John Wiley & Sons]] |ISBN=978-0-470-40702-8}}</ref>
<ref name="RTL FAQ 940111" group="U">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/sIKvFzRKiz8/m/6FEfB-3QP-EJ |title=LEGO frequently asked questions |author=Tom Pfeifer |date=12 December 1994 |newsgroup=rec.toys.lego | message-id=[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241110104728/https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/sIKvFzRKiz8/m/6FEfB-3QP-EJ |archive-date=10 November 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>


<ref name="RTM">{{cite web |url=https://www.toymania.com/resources/usenet/toyhist.shtml |title=A Brief History of Toy-Related Usenet Newsgroups |first=Eric G. |last=Myers |date=1996 |website=Raving Toy Maniac |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240425105223/https://www.toymania.com/resources/usenet/toyhist.shtml |archive-date=25 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
<ref name="RTL Pfeifer Koblas ATL">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/d41xLJ0jteY/m/j1Nx_Wqn7xUJ |title=Re: rec.toys.lego vs alt.toy.lego Question |author=Tom Pfeifer |date=12 December 1994 |newsgroup=rec.toys.lego | [email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241110101153/https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/d41xLJ0jteY/m/j1Nx_Wqn7xUJ |archive-date=10 November 2024 |url-status=live}} Quoting post by {{cite newsgroup |title=Re: rec.toys.lego vs alt.toy.lego Question |author=David Koblas |date=December 1994 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |[email protected] |quote=1 year and 11 months ago I created alt.toys.lego, since I didn't think that rec.toys.lego would pass a vote without some precidence... 11 months ago, I caused the creation of rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc based on the success of alt.toys.lego.}}</ref>
}}
}}


== External links ==
== External links ==
* [https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego rec.toys.lego] on [[Wikipedia:Google Groups|Google Groups]]
* [https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego rec.toys.lego archive] on [[Wikipedia:Google Groups|Google Groups]]
* [http://alumni.cse.ucsc.edu/~dulcaoin/reviews/index.html rec.toys.lego LEGO Set Review Archive] by Joshua Delahunty
* Transformers Wiki's article on [https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Alt.toys.transformers alt.toys.transformers], for a similar toy-related newsgroup


[[Category:1994 establishments]]
[[Category:Online LEGO communities]]
[[Category:Online LEGO communities]]

Latest revision as of 05:20, 11 November 2024

rec.toys.lego
A rec.toys.lego message from September 1994 viewed in a Windows 3.1 newsreader
Type of site
Usenet newsgroup
Created byDavid Koblas
URLrec.toys.lego
Launched
  • January 1993 (ATL)
  • 10 January 1994; 30 years ago (1994-01-10) (RTL)

rec.toys.lego (often abbreviated RTL)[1] is a Usenet newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of LEGO products and LEGO-compatible toys.[2] It was one of the earliest online LEGO fan communities, starting in early 1993 as alt.toys.lego (ATL)[3] before moving to the rec.* hierarchy one year later.

History

The alt.toys.lego newsgroup was created by David Koblas[U 1] in January 1993.[4][note 1] It was the first of a number of toy-related newsgroups in the alt.toy.* hierarchy; others created later in 1993 included alt.toys.hi-tech in May and alt.toys.transformers in September.[U 8][U 9] ATL received continuous activity soon after its creation; however, the alt.* hierarchy was not well-propagated due to many dial-up Internet service providers not offering it to subscribers. Suggestions were made in many alt.* groups to migrate to one of the Big 7 hierarchies.[4] A new LEGO newsgroup under the rec.* (recreation) hierarchy was suggested in September 1993,[note 2] with the goal of making the community more accessible.[U 11][U 12]

On 14 October 1993, David Koblas drafted a proposal for the creation of rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc, both unmoderated and under a new rec.toys.* hierarchy.[5][U 6] Koblas had originally wanted to create ATL in the rec.* hierarchy, but did not believe it would pass a vote for creation at the time.[U 1][note 3] The name rec.toys.construction was alternatively suggested as a more inclusive name that would allow for discussion of other construction toys; Koblas rejected this idea, as his original intention was to increase the LEGO newsgroup's readership by moving it out of the alt.* hierarchy, and he felt that the alternate name would not appeal to ATL's readers enough to draw them away from that newsgroup.[5][U 13] Voting for the two new groups began on 30 November and ended on 21 December.[U 14][8] The results were announced on 3 January 1994: 243 users voted, and both newsgroups passed overwhelmingly.[5] The new rec.toys.lego newsgroup was created on 10 January 1994 under the following charter:[8]

To provide a forum for the discussion of all things and experiences relating to the Lego(tm), Duplo(tm) and compatible construction toys. Including interesting models that one has built, experiences one has had using legos, or questions about how to build particular components.

rec.toys.lego seen in a list of rec.* newsgroups, c. 1994

As it was proposed alongside RTL, the rec.toys.misc newsgroup was originally described as covering "non-Lego toys topics, from Barbi [sic] Dolls to My Little Pony gift sets." Its charter's wording was soon altered so that it would cover all toys that did not have their own newsgroup within the rec.toys.* hierarchy, without any reference to LEGO. Within a few months, activity in rec.toys.misc had surpassed rec.toys.lego. Many other toy-related newsgroups were created in rec.* over the following years, though some groups like alt.toys.transformers remained active in alt.*.[5] ATL was largely abandoned, though it continued to exist and receive occasional posts.[4]

Discussions

What content was discussed on RTL. Also a section about related sites, including fan sites, the reasons for LEGO.com, and LUGNET replacing RTL.[9]

Related websites

Earthsea FTP, LEGO Information, RTL-Bricks, Pause, Brickshelf, LUGNET

Notes

  1. ↑ The exact date of its creation is unknown. The earliest alt.toys.lego post archived on Google Groups is from 18 February 1993.[U 2] An alt.* newsgroup listing from 5 February 1993 does not include alt.toys.lego;[U 3] however, an archived message in alt.fan.warlord appears to reply to an ATL message dated 5 February 1993,[U 4] and ATL is mentioned in a news.admin.policy message from 8 February.[U 5] Koblas's RTL proposal from 14 October 1993 refers to ATL as having been active for nine months,[U 6] and the FAQ post from 11 January 1994 claims ATL had existed for "almost one year".[U 7]
  2. ↑ A rec.toys newsgroup had previously been suggested in news.groups in April 1993, though it had not been created.[U 10]
  3. ↑ Newsgroups in the alt.* hierarchy can be created by anyone, while those in the Big 7 (later the Big 8) require discussion and voting to be created.[6][7]

References

  1. ↑ Seybold, Patricia B. (2006). Outside Innovation: How Your Customers Will Co-Design Your Company's Future. New York: HarperCollins. p. 392. ISBN 0-06-113590-9.
  2. ↑ Engst, Adam C. (1994). Internet Starter Kit for Macintosh (2nd ed.). Indianapolis: Hayden Books. p. 850. ISBN 1-56830-111-1.
  3. ↑ Bender, Jonathan (2010). LEGO: A Love Story. Hoboken: John Wiley & Sons. pp. 24–25. ISBN 978-0-470-40702-8.
  4. ↑ 4.0 4.1 4.2 Eaton, David (July 25, 2013). "20th Anniversary of the Online LEGO Community!". Brickset Forum. Archived from the original on June 25, 2015.
  5. ↑ 5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3 Myers, Eric G. (September 17, 1996). "A Brief History of Toy-Related Usenet Newsgroups". Raving Toy Maniac. Archived from the original on 25 April 2024.
  6. ↑ Barr, David (1995). "So You Want to Create an Alt Newsgroup". Pennsylvania State University. Archived from the original on 24 January 1997.
  7. ↑ Caroll, Jim; Broadhead, Rick; Cassel, Don (1997). 1997 Internet Handbook (Educational ed.). Scarborough, Ontario: Prentice-Hall Canada, Inc. pp. 156, 158–161. ISBN 0-13-851487-9.
  8. ↑ 8.0 8.1 Eaton, David (10 September 2013). "The AFOL History Project". Archived from the original on 2021-09-19. Text is CC BY-SA 3.0.
  9. ↑ Randall, Neil; Latulipe, Celine (1995). Plug-n-Play Internet. Indianapolis: Sams Publishing. p. 150. ISBN 0-672-30669-7.

Usenet messages

  1. ↑ 1.0 1.1 Tom Pfeifer (12 December 1994). "Re: rec.toys.lego vs alt.toy.lego Question". Newsgroup: rec.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 10 November 2024. Quoting post by David Koblas (December 1994). "Re: rec.toys.lego vs alt.toy.lego Question". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. 1 year and 11 months ago I created alt.toys.lego, since I didn't think that rec.toys.lego would pass a vote without some precidence... 11 months ago, I caused the creation of rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc based on the success of alt.toys.lego.
  2. ↑ Daniel LaLiberte (18 February 1993). "Lego strategy game". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Archived from the original on 23 April 2024.
  3. ↑ The Society for Reviling ATnT (February 5, 1993). "Another listing of newsgroups in the "alt" Usenet hierarchy". Newsgroup: alt.newgroup. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 28 April 2024.
  4. ↑ Nick Leverton (11 February 1993). "Re: LegoLand in England??". Newsgroup: alt.fan.warlord. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 28 April 2024. In alt.toys.lego, article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Nick Pettefar) writes...
  5. ↑ Erik Olivers (8 February 1993). "Re: Anonymous postings to non-personals newsgroups". Newsgroup: news.admin.policy. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 28 April 2024.
  6. ↑ 6.0 6.1 Koblas, David (14 October 1993). "RFD: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.
  7. ↑ Tom Pfeifer (12 December 1994). "LEGO frequently asked questions". Newsgroup: rec.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 10 November 2024.
  8. ↑ USENET news (20 May 1993). "Create newsgroup alt.toys.hi-tech". Newsgroup: alt.toys.hi-tech. Archived from the original on 25 April 2024.
  9. ↑ Steven Mar (12 September 1993). "Transformers E-Mailing List". Newsgroup: alt.toys.transformers. Archived from the original on 25 April 2024.
  10. ↑ E. Kontei (23 April 1993). "Test Baloon: rec.toys". Newsgroup: news.groups. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.
  11. ↑ Ron Carter (16 September 1993). "A thought for discussion..." Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.
  12. ↑ Ron Carter (18 September 1993). "OK, how about a modified suggestion (trying to please all :-)". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.
  13. ↑ Koblas, David (16 November 1993). "2nd RFD: rec.toys.lego vs rec.toys.construction (straw poll vote)". Newsgroup: news.groups. Archived from the original on 28 April 2024.
  14. ↑ Ed Bailey (30 November 1993). "CFV: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.

External links

Retrieved from "https://wiki.researchrealm.net/index.php?title=Rec.toys.lego&oldid=5505"