Rec.toys.lego: Difference between revisions

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Created page with "{{lowercase title|title=rec.toys.lego}} '''rec.toys.lego''' was a Usenet newsgroup dedicated to discussing LEGO. It was one of the earliest online LEGO communities. == History == The first major LEGO newsgroup was '''alt.toys.lego''', which was created in January 1993.<ref name="AFOL20">{{cite web |url=http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/11594/20th-anniversary-of-the-online-lego-community |title=20th Anniversar..."
 
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{{lowercase title|title=rec.toys.lego}}
{{lowercase title|title=rec.toys.lego}}
'''rec.toys.lego''' was a [[Wikipedia:Usenet|Usenet]] [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup|newsgroup]] dedicated to discussing [[LEGO]]. It was one of the earliest online LEGO communities.
{{Infobox website
| name              = rec.toys.lego
| screenshot        = PnP rec.toys.lego screenshot.jpg
| caption          = A rec.toys.lego message from September 1994 viewed in a [[Wikipedia:Windows 3.1|Windows 3.1]] [[Wikipedia:Newsreader (Usenet)|newsreader]]
| type              = [[Wikipedia:Usenet|Usenet]] [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup|newsgroup]]
| language          = English
| dissolved        =
| predecessor      =
| successor        =
| area_served      =
| author            = David Koblas
| international    =
| url              = [news:rec.toys.lego rec.toys.lego]
| commercial        =
| registration      =
| num_users        =
| launch_date      = {{ubl|January 1993 (ATL)|{{Start date and age|1994|01|10|df=y}} (RTL)}}
| current_status    =
}}
 
'''rec.toys.lego''' (often referred to as '''RTL'''<ref name="Seybold"/> or '''r.t.l''') is a [[Wikipedia:Usenet|Usenet]] [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup|newsgroup]] dedicated to the discussion of [[LEGO]] products and [[LEGO clone|LEGO-compatible toys]].<ref name="Engst"/> It was one of the earliest online LEGO fan communities, starting in early 1993 as '''alt.toys.lego''' ('''ATL'''<ref name="Bender"/> or '''a.t.l''') before moving to the ''rec.*'' [[Wikipedia:Usenet newsgroup#Hierarchies|hierarchy]] one year later. The newsgroup led to the creation of many other online communities, most notably [[LUGNET]], and additionally played a role in the [[LEGO Group]]'s decision to create [[LEGO.com]].


== History ==
== History ==
The first major LEGO newsgroup was '''alt.toys.lego''', which was created in January 1993.<ref name="AFOL20">{{cite web |url=http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/11594/20th-anniversary-of-the-online-lego-community |title=20th Anniversary of the Online LEGO Community! |author=davee123 |date=July 25, 2013 |website=[[Brickset]] Forum |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150625050417/http://www.bricksetforum.com:80/discussion/11594/20th-anniversary-of-the-online-lego-community |archive-date=June 25, 2015 |url-status=dead}}</ref> Its successor rec.toys.lego was created on 10 January 1994.<ref name="AFOL TL">{{cite web |url=http://www.suave.net/~dave/afol_history.pl?timeline=1 |title=The AFOL History Project |first=David |last=Eaton |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210919201210/http://www.suave.net/~dave/afol_history.pl?timeline=1 |archive-date=2021-09-19 |url-status=dead}}</ref>
The alt.toys.lego newsgroup was created by David Koblas<ref name="rec.toys.lego ATL question" group="U"/> in January 1993.<ref name="Brickset AFOL 20th"/>{{efn|The exact date of its creation is unknown. The earliest alt.toys.lego post archived on [[Wikipedia:Google Groups|Google Groups]] is from 18 February 1993.<ref name="alt.toys.lego LaLiberte" group="U"/> A list of ''alt.*'' newsgroups from 5 February 1993 does not include alt.toys.lego;<ref name="alt.newgroup listing" group="U"/> however, an archived message in alt.fan.warlord (a newsgroup dedicated to mocking bizarre and excessive [[Wikipedia:Signature block|signatures]])<ref name="Kehoe"/> quotes an alt.toys.lego message dated 5 February 1993,<ref name="alt.fan.warlord palms" group="U"/> and alt.toys.lego is mentioned in a news.admin.policy message from 8 February 1993.<ref name="news.admin.policy Erik" group="U"/> Koblas's rec.toys.lego proposal from 14 October 1993 refers to alt.toys.lego as having been active for nine months,<ref name="alt.toys.lego Koblas RFD" group="U"/> and the rec.toys.lego FAQ post from 11 January 1994 claims alt.toys.lego had existed for "almost one year".<ref name="rec.toys.lego FAQ 1994-01-11" group="U"/>}} It was the first of a number of toy-related newsgroups in the [[Wikipedia:alt.* hierarchy|''alt.*'' hierarchy]];<ref name="Myers"/> others created later in 1993 included alt.toys.hi-tech in May and alt.toys.[[Wikipedia:Transformers|transformers]] in September.<ref name="alt.toys.hi-tech created" group="U"/><ref name="alt.toys.transformers email" group="U"/> Although alt.toys.lego developed an active community soon after its creation,<ref name="Myers"/> the ''alt.*'' hierarchy was not well-propagated due to many [[Wikipedia:Dial-up Internet access|dial-up]] [[Wikipedia:Internet service provider|Internet service providers]] not offering it to subscribers; suggestions were made in many ''alt.*'' groups to migrate to one of the [[Wikipedia:Big 8 (Usenet)|Big 7]] hierarchies as a result.<ref name="Brickset AFOL 20th"/>{{R|Carroll 1997|p=156}} A new LEGO newsgroup under the ''rec.*'' ([[Wikipedia:Recreation|recreation]]) hierarchy was suggested in September 1993,{{efn|A rec.toys newsgroup had previously been suggested in news.groups in April 1993, though it had not been created.<ref name="news.groups Kontei" group="U"/> ''rec.toys.construction'', ''rec.toys.system'', and ''rec.toys.lego'' were all suggested as possible subgroups for replacing alt.toys.lego.<ref name="news.groups Smith RTC" group="U"/><ref name="news.groups Smith RTS" group="U"/>}} with the goal of making the community more accessible to readers without access to ''alt.*'' newsgroups.<ref name="alt.toys.lego Carter RTC" group="U"/><ref name="alt.toys.lego Carter RTCL" group="U"/>
 
On 14 October 1993, David Koblas drafted a proposal for the creation of rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc, both [[Wikipedia:Usenet#Moderated and unmoderated newsgroups|unmoderated]]{{efn|Moderated newsgroups require all messages to be approved by a [[Wikipedia:Content moderation|moderator]] before being published, while in an unmoderated newsgroup messages are published instantly.{{R|Carroll 1997|pp=152-153}}}} and under a new ''rec.toys.*'' hierarchy.<ref name="Myers"/><ref name="alt.toys.lego Koblas RFD" group="U"/> Koblas had originally wanted to create alt.toys.lego in the ''rec.*'' hierarchy, but did not believe it would pass a vote for creation at the time.<ref name="rec.toys.lego ATL question" group="U"/>{{efn|Newsgroups in the ''alt.*'' hierarchy can be created by anyone without approval,<ref name="Barr"/>{{R|Carroll 1997|p=156}} while those in the Big 8 (originally the Big 7) require discussion and voting to be created. The Usenet acceptance criteria requires at least two-thirds of the votes to be for "yes", and for there to be at least 100 more votes for "yes" than for "no".{{R|Carroll 1997|pp=158-160}}}} The name ''rec.toys.construction'' was alternatively suggested as a more inclusive name that would allow for discussion of other [[Wikipedia:Construction set|construction toys]]; Koblas rejected this idea, as his original intention was to increase the LEGO newsgroup's readership by moving it out of the ''alt.*'' hierarchy, and he felt that the alternate name would not appeal to LEGO enthusiasts enough to draw them away from the alt.toys.lego newsgroup.<ref name="Myers"/><ref name="news.groups Koblas RFD" group="U"/> Voting for the two new groups began on 30 November and ended on 21 December.<ref name="alt.toys.lego Bailey CFV" group="U"/><ref name="AFOL History"/> The results were announced on 3 January 1994: 243 users voted, and both newsgroups passed overwhelmingly (219 "yes" against 20 "no" for rec.toys.lego, and 211 "yes" against 18 "no" for rec.toys.misc).<ref name="Myers"/> The new rec.toys.lego newsgroup was created on 10 January 1994 under the following [[Wikipedia:Newsgroup charter|charter]]:<ref name="AFOL History"/>
 
{{blockquote |text=To provide a forum for the discussion of all things and experiences relating to the Lego(tm), Duplo(tm) and compatible construction toys. Including interesting models that one has built, experiences one has had using legos, or questions about how to build particular components.}}
 
[[File:WotI Newsgroups Main Menu.jpg|thumb|rec.toys.lego seen in a list of ''rec.*'' newsgroups, {{circa|1994}}]]
 
As it was proposed alongside rec.toys.lego, the rec.toys.misc newsgroup was originally described as covering "non-Lego toys topics, from {{sic|[[Wikipedia:Barbie|Barbi]]}} Dolls to [[Wikipedia:My Little Pony|My Little Pony]] gift sets." Its charter's wording was soon altered so that it would cover all toys that did not have their own newsgroup within the ''rec.toys.*'' hierarchy, without any reference to LEGO. Within a few months, activity in rec.toys.misc had surpassed rec.toys.lego. Many other toy-related newsgroups were created in ''rec.*'' over the following years, although some groups like alt.toys.transformers remained active in ''alt.*''.<ref name="Myers"/> alt.toys.lego was largely abandoned after rec.toys.lego's creation;<ref name="HispaBrick"/> despite users sending [[Wikipedia:rmgroup|rmgroup]] [[Wikipedia:Control message|messages]] to have the newsgroup removed, however, it remained available in some [[Wikipedia:News server|news servers]] and continued to receive occasional messages.<ref name="Brickset AFOL 20th"/><ref name="rec.toys.lego ATL question" group="U"/>
 
== Discussions ==
(write about discussions hwre)
information about older and current LEGO sets and elements, and appearances of LEGO in the news.<ref name="Gagnon"/>
 
The earliest attempts at documenting the history of LEGO products started early on in alt.toys.lego. 
The first known list of historical LEGO sets was posted on 5 May 1993 by Dik T. Winter, containing sets sourced largely from Dutch LEGO catalogues dating back to 1984. The first attempted list of Design IDs (part numbers) was posted on 10 November 1993 by Peter Miller.<ref name="AFOL History"/>
 
The rec.toys.lego FAQ, also called the LEGO FAQ, was posted monthly by Tom Pfeifer. The FAQ was first posted on 7 April 1993.<ref name="AFOL History"/><ref name="alt.toys.lego FAQ 1993-04-07" group="U"/> Its final update was posted on 19 June 2000.<ref name="Multicon FAQ"/><ref name="rec.toys.lego FAQ 2000-06-19" group="U"/>
 
=== Related websites ===
 
=== Relationship with Lego ===
<ref name="Carroll 1995"/>
<ref name="Lego press 8"/>
 
== Notes ==
{{notelist}}


== References ==
== References ==
{{reflist}}
{{reflist|refs=
<!-- books -->
 
<ref name="Bender">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/legolovestory0000bend/page/24/mode/2up?view=theater |title=LEGO: A Love Story |first=Jonathan |last=Bender |year=2010 |pages=24–25 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:John Wiley & Sons|John Wiley & Sons]] |location=[[Wikipedia:Hoboken, New Jersey|Hoboken]] |ISBN=978-0-470-40702-8}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Carroll 1995">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/canadianinternet0000carr_i6o2/page/94/mode/2up?view=theater |title=The Canadian Internet Advantage: Opportunities for Business and Other Organizations |last1=Carroll |first1=Jim |last2=Broadhead |first2=Rick |year=1995 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Prentice Hall|Prentice-Hall Canada, Inc]] |location=[[Wikipedia:Scarborough, Ontario|Scarborough, Ontario]] |isbn=0-13-226598-2 |pages=94-97}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Carroll 1997">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/1997internethand0000carr/page/158/mode/2up?view=theater |title=1997 Internet Handbook |edition=Educational |last1=Carroll |first1=Jim |last2=Broadhead |first2=Rick |last3=Cassel |first3=Don |year=1997 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Prentice Hall|Prentice-Hall Canada, Inc]] |location=[[Wikipedia:Scarborough, Ontario|Scarborough, Ontario]] |isbn=0-13-851487-9 |section=Usenet |pages=150-161}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Engst">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/internetstarterk00engsrich/page/850/mode/2up?view=theater |title=Internet Starter Kit for Macintosh |edition=2nd |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Hayden Books|Hayden Books]] |location=[[Wikipedia:Indianapolis|Indianapolis]] |year=1994 |first=Adam C. |last=Engst |ISBN=1-56830-111-1 |p=850}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Gagnon">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/whatsoninternet0000gagn/page/89/mode/2up?view=theater |title=What's on the Web |edition=Winter 1994/95 |year=1994 |location=[[Wikipedia:Berkeley, California|Berkeley, California]] |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Peachpit Press|Peachpit Press]] |page=89 |first=Eric |last=Gagnon |isbn=1-56609-162-4}}</ref>
 
<ref name="HispaBrick">{{cite magazine |title=Pillars of the community: LUGNET |magazine=[[HispaBrick Magazine]] |edition=English |number=24 |date=January 2016 |ISSN=1989-0982 |location=[[Wikipedia:Madrid|Madrid]] |first1=Todd |last1=Lehman |first2=Suzanne |last2=Eaton |ISSN=1989-0982 |pages=34-36 |url=https://www.hispabrickmagazine.com/pdfs/HBM024_EN/HBM024_EN-34-36.pdf |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240423103303/https://www.hispabrickmagazine.com/pdfs/HBM024_EN/HBM024_EN-34-36.pdf |archive-date=23 April 2024 |url-status=live |access-date=16 August 2025}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Kehoe">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/zenartofinternet00keho/page/47/mode/2up?view=theater |title=Zen and the Art of the Internet |edition=3rd |last=Kehoe |first=Brendan P. |year=1994 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Prentice Hall|PTR Prentice Hall]] |location=[[Wikipedia:Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey|Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey]] |isbn=0-13-121492-6 |page=47 |quote=The newsgroup alt.fan.warlord is a dumping ground for the most heinous of signature violations. In the course of reading news, people occasionally do follow-ups into alt.fan.warlord to show off their latest discoveries — talking whales, ten-line-high cacti, and a variety of other ASCII miracles.}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Seybold">{{cite book |url=https://archive.org/details/outsideinnovatio0000seyb/page/392/mode/2up?view=theater |title=Outside Innovation: How Your Customers Will Co-Design Your Company's Future |first=Patricia B. |last=Seybold |year=2006 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:HarperCollins|HarperCollins]] |location=[[Wikipedia:New York City|New York]] |ISBN=0-06-113590-9 |p=392}}</ref>
 
<!-- websites -->
 
<ref name="AFOL History">{{cite web |url=http://www.suave.net/~dave/afol_history.pl?timeline=1 |title=The AFOL History Project |first=David |last=Eaton |date=10 September 2013 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210919201210/http://www.suave.net/~dave/afol_history.pl?timeline=1 |archive-date=2021-09-19 |url-status=dead}} Text is [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC BY-SA 3.0].</ref>
 
<ref name="Barr">{{cite web |url=http://www.math.psu.edu/barr/alt-creation-guide.html |title=So You Want to Create an Alt Newsgroup |first=David |last=Barr |year=1995 |publisher=[[Wikipedia:Pennsylvania State University|Pennsylvania State University]] |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/19970124072217/http://www.math.psu.edu/barr/alt-creation-guide.html |archive-date=24 January 1997}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Brickset AFOL 20th">{{cite web |url=http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/11594/20th-anniversary-of-the-online-lego-community |title=20th Anniversary of the Online LEGO Community! |first=David |last=Eaton |date=July 25, 2013 |website=[[Brickset]] Forum |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150625050417/http://www.bricksetforum.com:80/discussion/11594/20th-anniversary-of-the-online-lego-community |archive-date=June 25, 2015 |url-status=dead}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Lego press 8">{{cite web |url=http://www.lego.com/press/press_8.html |title=Press Info: <nowiki>http://www.LEGO.com</nowiki> | website=[[LEGO World Wide Web Site]] |date=March 29, 1996 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/19970110041240/http://www.lego.com/press/press_8.html |archive-date=10 January 1997 }}</ref>
 
<ref name="Multicon FAQ">{{cite web |url=http://www.multicon.de/fun/legofaq.html |title=LEGO frequently asked questions (FAQ) |first=Tom |last=Pfeifer |date=19 June 2000 |website=Multicon |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250526014754/http://www.multicon.de/fun/legofaq.html |archive-date=26 May 2025 |url-status=live |access-date=15 August 2025}}</ref>
 
<ref name="Myers">{{cite web |url=https://www.toymania.com/resources/usenet/toyhist.shtml |title=A Brief History of Toy-Related Usenet Newsgroups |first=Eric G. |last=Myers |date=September 17, 1996 |website=Raving Toy Maniac |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240425105223/https://www.toymania.com/resources/usenet/toyhist.shtml |archive-date=25 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
}}
 
=== Usenet messages ===
{{reflist|group=U|refs=
<ref name="alt.fan.warlord palms">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.warlord/c/0tlUuNfG1mg/m/NDxvDY4pLacJ |title=Re: LegoLand in England?? |first=Nick |last=Leverton |date=11 February 1993 |newsgroup=alt.fan.warlord |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428040859/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.warlord/c/0tlUuNfG1mg/m/NDxvDY4pLacJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live |quote=In alt.toys.lego, article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Nick Pettefar) writes...}}</ref>
 
<ref name="alt.newgroup listing">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.newgroup/c/Vo_Jd10lNto/m/uWKSud65ffIJ |title=Another listing of newsgroups in the "alt" Usenet hierarchy |author=The Society for Reviling ATnT |date=February 5, 1993 |newsgroup=alt.newgroup |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428061839/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.newgroup/c/Vo_Jd10lNto/m/uWKSud65ffIJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="alt.toys.hi-tech created">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.hi-tech/c/sBl0SQFCYCA/m/I5gp9BxM-8oJ |title=Create newsgroup alt.toys.hi-tech |author=USENET news |date=20 May 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.hi-tech |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240425123724/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.hi-tech/c/sBl0SQFCYCA/m/I5gp9BxM-8oJ |archive-date=25 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="alt.toys.lego Bailey CFV">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/AdX38CoNxnEJ |title=CFV: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc |first=Ed |last=Bailey |date=30 November 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego | [email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427102402/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/AdX38CoNxnEJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="alt.toys.lego Carter RTC">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/1PI-5-HDGSk/m/wl6CqpCDCIYJ |title=A thought for discussion... |first=Ron |last=Carter |date=16 September 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427091754/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/1PI-5-HDGSk/m/wl6CqpCDCIYJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
<ref name="alt.toys.lego Carter RTCL">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/m6dXkpdZ6bY/m/nr2ZUDPDC3cJ |title=OK, how about a modified suggestion (trying to please all :-) |first=Ron |last=Carter |date=18 September 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427095848/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/m6dXkpdZ6bY/m/nr2ZUDPDC3cJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="alt.toys.lego FAQ 1993-04-07">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/lu-dEN2doxs/m/7JtRMJ6DpjUJ |title=Frequently Asked Questions of a.t.l |first=Tom |last=Pfeifer |date=7 April 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250815162321/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/lu-dEN2doxs/m/7JtRMJ6DpjUJ |archive-date=15 August 2025 |url-status=live |access-date=15 August 2025}}</ref>
 
<ref name="alt.toys.lego LaLiberte">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/r3QlephBq0k/m/gkN7Tr6Q6HoJ |title=Lego strategy game |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |date=18 February 1993 |first=Daniel |last=LaLiberte |archive-date=23 April 2024 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240423104402/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/r3QlephBq0k/m/gkN7Tr6Q6HoJ |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="alt.toys.lego Koblas RFD">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/ihgEiC4GMpUJ |title=RFD: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc |first=David |last=Koblas |date=14 October 1993 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego | [email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427092225/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.lego/c/jr-vq7TSta8/m/ihgEiC4GMpUJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="alt.toys.transformers email">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/7eSYCY7FFLM/m/X-gM3J57C1UJ |first=Steven |last=Mar |title=Transformers E-Mailing List |newsgroup=alt.toys.transformers |date=12 September 1993 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240425124527/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/7eSYCY7FFLM/m/X-gM3J57C1UJ |archive-date=25 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="news.admin.policy Erik">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.policy/c/oHfoOarG6Zw/m/0CpWejiaiKMJ |title=Re: Anonymous postings to non-personals newsgroups |first=Erik |last=Olivers |date=8 February 1993 |newsgroup=news.admin.policy |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428041815/https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.policy/c/oHfoOarG6Zw/m/0CpWejiaiKMJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="news.groups Koblas RFD">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/S0RSFxA-Yhk/m/AjU3eXYJn6UJ |title=2nd RFD: rec.toys.lego vs rec.toys.construction (straw poll vote) |first=David |last=Koblas |date=16 November 1993 |newsgroup=news.groups |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240428083242/https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/S0RSFxA-Yhk/m/AjU3eXYJn6UJ |archive-date=28 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="news.groups Kontei">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/pUHEuJIF3hIJ |title=Test Baloon: rec.toys |last=Conty |first=Enrique "E. Kontei" |date=23 April 1993 | newsgroup=news.groups |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240427091052/https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/pUHEuJIF3hIJ |archive-date=27 April 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="news.groups Smith RTC">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/qxYZRxJlxq4J |title=Re: Test Baloon: rec.toys |first=Lawrence C. |last=Smith |date=29 April 1993 |newsgroup=news.groups |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250814150528/https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/qxYZRxJlxq4J |archive-date=14 August 2025 |url-status=live |access-date=14 August 2025}}</ref>
 
<ref name="news.groups Smith RTS">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/4x5Huc8d4xIJ |title=Re: Test Balloon: rec.toys |first=Lawrence C. |last=Smith |date=29 April 1993 |newsgroup=news.groups |[email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250814150011/https://groups.google.com/g/news.groups/c/MRfAKwDRGtg/m/4x5Huc8d4xIJ |archive-date=14 August 2025 |url-status=live |access-date=14 August 2025}}</ref>
 
<ref name="rec.toys.lego FAQ 1994-01-11">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/sIKvFzRKiz8/m/6FEfB-3QP-EJ |title=LEGO frequently asked questions |first=Tom |last=Pfeifer |date=12 December 1994 |newsgroup=rec.toys.lego | [email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241110104728/https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/sIKvFzRKiz8/m/6FEfB-3QP-EJ |archive-date=10 November 2024 |url-status=live}}</ref>
 
<ref name="rec.toys.lego FAQ 2000-06-19">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/qAmesvev5Bk/m/ILIxrxXG7HsJ |title=LEGO frequently asked questions (FAQ) |first=Tom |last=Pfeifer |date=19 June 2000 |newsgroup=rec.toys.lego |[email protected] |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20250815162918/https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/qAmesvev5Bk/m/ILIxrxXG7HsJ |archive-date=15 August 2025 |url-status=live |access-date=15 August 2025}}</ref>
 
<ref name="rec.toys.lego ATL question">{{cite newsgroup |url=https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/d41xLJ0jteY/m/j1Nx_Wqn7xUJ |title=Re: rec.toys.lego vs alt.toy.lego Question |first=Tom |last=Pfeifer |date=12 December 1994 |newsgroup=rec.toys.lego | [email protected] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241110101153/https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego/c/d41xLJ0jteY/m/j1Nx_Wqn7xUJ |archive-date=10 November 2024 |url-status=live}} Quoting post by {{cite newsgroup |title=Re: rec.toys.lego vs alt.toy.lego Question |author=David Koblas |date=December 1994 |newsgroup=alt.toys.lego |[email protected] |quote=1 year and 11 months ago I created alt.toys.lego, since I didn't think that rec.toys.lego would pass a vote without some {{sic|precidence...}} 11 months ago, I caused the creation of rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc based on the success of alt.toys.lego.}}</ref>
}}
 
== External links ==
* [https://groups.google.com/g/rec.toys.lego rec.toys.lego archive] on [[Wikipedia:Google Groups|Google Groups]]
* [http://alumni.cse.ucsc.edu/~dulcaoin/reviews/index.html rec.toys.lego LEGO Set Review Archive] by Joshua Delahunty
* ''Transformers'' Wiki's article on [https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Alt.toys.transformers alt.toys.transformers], for a similar toy-related newsgroup
 
[[Category:1994 establishments]]
[[Category:Online LEGO communities]]

Latest revision as of 03:52, 17 August 2025

rec.toys.lego
A rec.toys.lego message from September 1994 viewed in a Windows 3.1 newsreader
Type of site
Usenet newsgroup
Available inEnglish
Created byDavid Koblas
URLrec.toys.lego
Launched
  • January 1993 (ATL)
  • 10 January 1994; 31 years ago (1994-01-10) (RTL)

rec.toys.lego (often referred to as RTL[1] or r.t.l) is a Usenet newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of LEGO products and LEGO-compatible toys.[2] It was one of the earliest online LEGO fan communities, starting in early 1993 as alt.toys.lego (ATL[3] or a.t.l) before moving to the rec.* hierarchy one year later. The newsgroup led to the creation of many other online communities, most notably LUGNET, and additionally played a role in the LEGO Group's decision to create LEGO.com.

History

The alt.toys.lego newsgroup was created by David Koblas[U 1] in January 1993.[4][note 1] It was the first of a number of toy-related newsgroups in the alt.* hierarchy;[6] others created later in 1993 included alt.toys.hi-tech in May and alt.toys.transformers in September.[U 8][U 9] Although alt.toys.lego developed an active community soon after its creation,[6] the alt.* hierarchy was not well-propagated due to many dial-up Internet service providers not offering it to subscribers; suggestions were made in many alt.* groups to migrate to one of the Big 7 hierarchies as a result.[4][7]: 156  A new LEGO newsgroup under the rec.* (recreation) hierarchy was suggested in September 1993,[note 2] with the goal of making the community more accessible to readers without access to alt.* newsgroups.[U 13][U 14]

On 14 October 1993, David Koblas drafted a proposal for the creation of rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc, both unmoderated[note 3] and under a new rec.toys.* hierarchy.[6][U 6] Koblas had originally wanted to create alt.toys.lego in the rec.* hierarchy, but did not believe it would pass a vote for creation at the time.[U 1][note 4] The name rec.toys.construction was alternatively suggested as a more inclusive name that would allow for discussion of other construction toys; Koblas rejected this idea, as his original intention was to increase the LEGO newsgroup's readership by moving it out of the alt.* hierarchy, and he felt that the alternate name would not appeal to LEGO enthusiasts enough to draw them away from the alt.toys.lego newsgroup.[6][U 15] Voting for the two new groups began on 30 November and ended on 21 December.[U 16][9] The results were announced on 3 January 1994: 243 users voted, and both newsgroups passed overwhelmingly (219 "yes" against 20 "no" for rec.toys.lego, and 211 "yes" against 18 "no" for rec.toys.misc).[6] The new rec.toys.lego newsgroup was created on 10 January 1994 under the following charter:[9]

To provide a forum for the discussion of all things and experiences relating to the Lego(tm), Duplo(tm) and compatible construction toys. Including interesting models that one has built, experiences one has had using legos, or questions about how to build particular components.

rec.toys.lego seen in a list of rec.* newsgroups, c. 1994

As it was proposed alongside rec.toys.lego, the rec.toys.misc newsgroup was originally described as covering "non-Lego toys topics, from Barbi [sic] Dolls to My Little Pony gift sets." Its charter's wording was soon altered so that it would cover all toys that did not have their own newsgroup within the rec.toys.* hierarchy, without any reference to LEGO. Within a few months, activity in rec.toys.misc had surpassed rec.toys.lego. Many other toy-related newsgroups were created in rec.* over the following years, although some groups like alt.toys.transformers remained active in alt.*.[6] alt.toys.lego was largely abandoned after rec.toys.lego's creation;[10] despite users sending rmgroup messages to have the newsgroup removed, however, it remained available in some news servers and continued to receive occasional messages.[4][U 1]

Discussions

(write about discussions hwre) information about older and current LEGO sets and elements, and appearances of LEGO in the news.[11]

The earliest attempts at documenting the history of LEGO products started early on in alt.toys.lego. The first known list of historical LEGO sets was posted on 5 May 1993 by Dik T. Winter, containing sets sourced largely from Dutch LEGO catalogues dating back to 1984. The first attempted list of Design IDs (part numbers) was posted on 10 November 1993 by Peter Miller.[9]

The rec.toys.lego FAQ, also called the LEGO FAQ, was posted monthly by Tom Pfeifer. The FAQ was first posted on 7 April 1993.[9][U 17] Its final update was posted on 19 June 2000.[12][U 18]

Relationship with Lego

[13] [14]

Notes

  1. ↑ The exact date of its creation is unknown. The earliest alt.toys.lego post archived on Google Groups is from 18 February 1993.[U 2] A list of alt.* newsgroups from 5 February 1993 does not include alt.toys.lego;[U 3] however, an archived message in alt.fan.warlord (a newsgroup dedicated to mocking bizarre and excessive signatures)[5] quotes an alt.toys.lego message dated 5 February 1993,[U 4] and alt.toys.lego is mentioned in a news.admin.policy message from 8 February 1993.[U 5] Koblas's rec.toys.lego proposal from 14 October 1993 refers to alt.toys.lego as having been active for nine months,[U 6] and the rec.toys.lego FAQ post from 11 January 1994 claims alt.toys.lego had existed for "almost one year".[U 7]
  2. ↑ A rec.toys newsgroup had previously been suggested in news.groups in April 1993, though it had not been created.[U 10] rec.toys.construction, rec.toys.system, and rec.toys.lego were all suggested as possible subgroups for replacing alt.toys.lego.[U 11][U 12]
  3. ↑ Moderated newsgroups require all messages to be approved by a moderator before being published, while in an unmoderated newsgroup messages are published instantly.[7]: 152–153 
  4. ↑ Newsgroups in the alt.* hierarchy can be created by anyone without approval,[8][7]: 156  while those in the Big 8 (originally the Big 7) require discussion and voting to be created. The Usenet acceptance criteria requires at least two-thirds of the votes to be for "yes", and for there to be at least 100 more votes for "yes" than for "no".[7]: 158–160 

References

  1. ↑ Seybold, Patricia B. (2006). Outside Innovation: How Your Customers Will Co-Design Your Company's Future. New York: HarperCollins. p. 392. ISBN 0-06-113590-9.
  2. ↑ Engst, Adam C. (1994). Internet Starter Kit for Macintosh (2nd ed.). Indianapolis: Hayden Books. p. 850. ISBN 1-56830-111-1.
  3. ↑ Bender, Jonathan (2010). LEGO: A Love Story. Hoboken: John Wiley & Sons. pp. 24–25. ISBN 978-0-470-40702-8.
  4. ↑ 4.0 4.1 4.2 Eaton, David (July 25, 2013). "20th Anniversary of the Online LEGO Community!". Brickset Forum. Archived from the original on June 25, 2015.
  5. ↑ Kehoe, Brendan P. (1994). Zen and the Art of the Internet (3rd ed.). Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: PTR Prentice Hall. p. 47. ISBN 0-13-121492-6. The newsgroup alt.fan.warlord is a dumping ground for the most heinous of signature violations. In the course of reading news, people occasionally do follow-ups into alt.fan.warlord to show off their latest discoveries — talking whales, ten-line-high cacti, and a variety of other ASCII miracles.
  6. ↑ 6.0 6.1 6.2 6.3 6.4 6.5 Myers, Eric G. (September 17, 1996). "A Brief History of Toy-Related Usenet Newsgroups". Raving Toy Maniac. Archived from the original on 25 April 2024.
  7. ↑ 7.0 7.1 7.2 7.3 Carroll, Jim; Broadhead, Rick; Cassel, Don (1997). "Usenet". 1997 Internet Handbook (Educational ed.). Scarborough, Ontario: Prentice-Hall Canada, Inc. pp. 150–161. ISBN 0-13-851487-9.
  8. ↑ Barr, David (1995). "So You Want to Create an Alt Newsgroup". Pennsylvania State University. Archived from the original on 24 January 1997.
  9. ↑ 9.0 9.1 9.2 9.3 Eaton, David (10 September 2013). "The AFOL History Project". Archived from the original on 2021-09-19. Text is CC BY-SA 3.0.
  10. ↑ Lehman, Todd; Eaton, Suzanne (January 2016). "Pillars of the community: LUGNET" (PDF). HispaBrick Magazine. No. 24 (English ed.). Madrid. pp. 34–36. ISSN 1989-0982. Archived (PDF) from the original on 23 April 2024. Retrieved 16 August 2025.
  11. ↑ Gagnon, Eric (1994). What's on the Web (Winter 1994/95 ed.). Berkeley, California: Peachpit Press. p. 89. ISBN 1-56609-162-4.
  12. ↑ Pfeifer, Tom (19 June 2000). "LEGO frequently asked questions (FAQ)". Multicon. Archived from the original on 26 May 2025. Retrieved 15 August 2025.
  13. ↑ Carroll, Jim; Broadhead, Rick (1995). The Canadian Internet Advantage: Opportunities for Business and Other Organizations. Scarborough, Ontario: Prentice-Hall Canada, Inc. pp. 94–97. ISBN 0-13-226598-2.
  14. ↑ "Press Info: http://www.LEGO.com". LEGO World Wide Web Site. March 29, 1996. Archived from the original on 10 January 1997.

Usenet messages

  1. ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 Pfeifer, Tom (12 December 1994). "Re: rec.toys.lego vs alt.toy.lego Question". Newsgroup: rec.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 10 November 2024. Quoting post by David Koblas (December 1994). "Re: rec.toys.lego vs alt.toy.lego Question". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. 1 year and 11 months ago I created alt.toys.lego, since I didn't think that rec.toys.lego would pass a vote without some precidence... [sic] 11 months ago, I caused the creation of rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc based on the success of alt.toys.lego.
  2. ↑ LaLiberte, Daniel (18 February 1993). "Lego strategy game". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Archived from the original on 23 April 2024.
  3. ↑ The Society for Reviling ATnT (February 5, 1993). "Another listing of newsgroups in the "alt" Usenet hierarchy". Newsgroup: alt.newgroup. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 28 April 2024.
  4. ↑ Leverton, Nick (11 February 1993). "Re: LegoLand in England??". Newsgroup: alt.fan.warlord. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 28 April 2024. In alt.toys.lego, article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Nick Pettefar) writes...
  5. ↑ Olivers, Erik (8 February 1993). "Re: Anonymous postings to non-personals newsgroups". Newsgroup: news.admin.policy. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 28 April 2024.
  6. ↑ 6.0 6.1 Koblas, David (14 October 1993). "RFD: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.
  7. ↑ Pfeifer, Tom (12 December 1994). "LEGO frequently asked questions". Newsgroup: rec.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 10 November 2024.
  8. ↑ USENET news (20 May 1993). "Create newsgroup alt.toys.hi-tech". Newsgroup: alt.toys.hi-tech. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 25 April 2024.
  9. ↑ Mar, Steven (12 September 1993). "Transformers E-Mailing List". Newsgroup: alt.toys.transformers. Archived from the original on 25 April 2024.
  10. ↑ Conty, Enrique "E. Kontei" (23 April 1993). "Test Baloon: rec.toys". Newsgroup: news.groups. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.
  11. ↑ Smith, Lawrence C. (29 April 1993). "Re: Test Baloon: rec.toys". Newsgroup: news.groups. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 14 August 2025. Retrieved 14 August 2025.
  12. ↑ Smith, Lawrence C. (29 April 1993). "Re: Test Balloon: rec.toys". Newsgroup: news.groups. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 14 August 2025. Retrieved 14 August 2025.
  13. ↑ Carter, Ron (16 September 1993). "A thought for discussion..." Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.
  14. ↑ Carter, Ron (18 September 1993). "OK, how about a modified suggestion (trying to please all :-)". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.
  15. ↑ Koblas, David (16 November 1993). "2nd RFD: rec.toys.lego vs rec.toys.construction (straw poll vote)". Newsgroup: news.groups. Archived from the original on 28 April 2024.
  16. ↑ Bailey, Ed (30 November 1993). "CFV: rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 27 April 2024.
  17. ↑ Pfeifer, Tom (7 April 1993). "Frequently Asked Questions of a.t.l". Newsgroup: alt.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 15 August 2025. Retrieved 15 August 2025.
  18. ↑ Pfeifer, Tom (19 June 2000). "LEGO frequently asked questions (FAQ)". Newsgroup: rec.toys.lego. Usenet: [email protected]. Archived from the original on 15 August 2025. Retrieved 15 August 2025.
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