Research Realm:Discussion archives/Content to include

Probably the number one question I have, since this is a Lego focused project: What's the best way to handle set articles? I remember hearing someone complain about Brickipedia (among many things) that it having a page for every single set ever was unnecessary when things like Brickset already exist, and since hearing that I kinda agreed and wondered what the best way to fix that would be.

Should all set pages be separate even if there's not much info on them, and also separate from articles about the things in the set? Like would the pages for the Chrome Crusher vehicle and Chrome Crusher set be separate, or could the set be a section on the vehicle page? I guess that'd be a problem with 4930 and 4990 though since they're not any one thing in particular. With Rock Raiders I guess it's complicated since there's more to say about the vehicles in the games and such. Or like the Kabaya sets for instance, would there be a page for each or one for all four plus all the combiner stuff? Would all the Mini Heroes sets go on their own pages or just one page?

With other themes there's also stuff like how some sets had multiple set numbers but were pretty much the same set, or some sets having remakes that are new sets but essentially the same "thing" if that makes sense.

Sorry if this is sorta rambling, hope it makes sense, just wanted to ask this because obviously focusing on sets is important but I don't want this to be like Brickipedia either.

— Ringtail Raider 00:51, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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I hear ya. Reading the original post in this channel I was left thinking "that sounds like a ton of work". 😅

No need to reinvent the wheel. If we can link to Bricklink when appropriate, I'd say do it.

— R.R. Slugger 00:54, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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I don't mind the work and don't mind the idea of separate set pages (would be necessary for 4990 at least), just not sure to what extent

— Ringtail Raider 01:05, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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If there is nothing more to say on the set, definitely just link to Brickset (not Brickipedia I think - their articles can be pretty messy and Brickset has more verified info)

I think if there is anything else to say about the set, it's a good idea to give it a separate page. For Rock Raiders, you'd be interested in how they work in the PC game, for example, so that's more info needed. For some sets, perhaps there are prototypes of the set that would be nice to feature. Many sets though, won't have much to add to a separate page

That said... have you guys seen the website https://www.backoftheboxbuilds.com/ ? It is unfortunately very messy, but this is something I'd love to have that's missing from the broader internet. Just pictures the box of each set in high-resolution. It would make a ton of sense to have them available in a wiki rather than a separate website just for boxes, right? And that would warrant a Wiki page for sure I think

But all of that is not very high priority, it's something that I want to do eventually. Getting a complete archive would take a lot of time. Or, if someone would have access to the Lego Vault...

You guys are more into Rock Raiders and the PC games - so I think you should focus on expanding those pages in the meantime. Things like

• A main page for each game, with information on levels and things in the game
• How to run the game (A separate page, optimally)
• How to mod the game (A separate page, that then points to separate pages on modding specific parts)
• Betas, prototypes and cut content of the game perhaps, though that is widely covered my TCRF

Again, the Realm is a vision of mine that is a bit fuzzy, and you work on the parts of the Wiki that you want. For example I would be interested in cataloguing how many mould numbers there are for each part, and when they were produced, and... everyone else probably doesn't lol. As long as it's detailed nerd information, it goes!

— Klavvy (Baraklava) 01:10, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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Oh yeah I forgot the boxes, and alt builds, guess that'd make more sense on a set page than just a vehicle page.

I don't think the mold numbers is a bad idea.

That all sounds good, including the cut content - TCRF is lacking on LRR content right now anyway so stuff could be copied to there.

— Ringtail Raider 01:23, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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For now I think it's best to focus on work that is not on any Wiki, if that sums it up? Running LRR is a RRU guide, it needs a Wiki page that can be maintained, modding LRR is spread across many RRU guides, that needs a nice Wiki page/hierarchy of pages on how to mod specific aspects of the game

TCRF focuses on cut content, sure, but I'd for example want a Wiki page discussing how to perhaps implement/activate cut content (like the Spiders and scorpions) and not just being a list of things that were cut. Trying to relate it back to the game etc, and focus on what the TCRF does not do, but Lego nerds like us would want to know

Anything that has to do with physical Lego is just my brain wanting to catalogue everything about Lego as a company and producer xD I guess the crazy end goal is having concrete info and references about most parts going back to the 1950's, things like how their processes evolved, when they changed up their colours, things like that that I think other Wikis don't cover properly. I know it's not what most of the former RRU crowd has focused on though, but it's a passion of mine and I have a ton of production prototypes and mould tests, as well as a lot of insight in the process on how a part goes from concept to production... or information that not even Lego has catalogued because they didn't think anyone would be interested

— Klavvy (Baraklava) 01:29, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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I guess it's best to start and see what works best. I'm all for as much info as possible, it's mostly just the way Brickipedia does sets I don't like.

I guess on that note my other question was, what's best to do with (English) regional names, like which should be the primary name/page title used for sets and characters? With Rock Raiders there's not much difference (I think sets havs a "the" in the uk) but other themes obviously have a lot of differences. Sites like Brickipedia seem to prefer the US names but that's probably because theyre written by Americans, and in some cases like Insectoids the American stories are worse imo

— Ringtail Raider 01:45, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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That's a good question that's hard to answer. I think the best answer is whatever originated in Denmark? So not necessarily the UK, nor the US, but central Europe, it seems to have always been the first avenue when it comes to naming stuff.

To me, the "official record" would be whatever it says in the Lego Vault, as most boxes there should have names on the sides, but I don't have access to that yet

If you're unsure, try to refer to boxes. Magazines frequently get things wrong (see "Sam Grant", and the misprint 4959 set etc) but Lego's official boxes are directly from the company themselves

— Klavvy (Baraklava) 01:50, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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Can we document contents of the emails or are those off limits? and this is for games too not just sets right?

— MrPinball64 02:00, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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I'd say yeah - I've already got a bunch of them curated and organized ready to go, I just haven't found time to release them alongside a video explaining it all. That was last summer's project... 😅

— R.R. Slugger 02:06, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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You're still the main guy who dictates what's allowed with the emails lol, but yeah, good question... As I wrote we want to keep it objective, so perhaps leave out the rat poison stories, but keep the references to development stuff in a timeline

And yes, definitely games too. It might be hard to explain, but I say it's a site for "Lego nerd information": Have you ever met someone obsessed or interested in something Lego-related beyond your understanding? Then whatever they've researched should probably be in our Wiki. Or, if you have some information/material that just doesn't fit any other sites, the Realm is the place for them

For example Sadie really likes investigating old Lego books and such, and some books never went into production, such as the book "Alien Stone". How on Earth would someone find their way to such a page if it existed on Brickipedia? In the Realm, it would hopefully be included in a timeline of unpublished works from Lego Publishing, or similar.

And, as Sadie just mentioned: How many people are actually interested in modding the Canteen back into the game? Probably only a handful, but the Realm is for those handfuls, so documenting how to mod it back could be a good page! 😄

Both topics, while very different, have something in common: They go into very detailed information to an absurd degree - "Nerd information". Put that on Brickipedia and they'd go "That's not a commercial Lego set - removed for being irrelevant." There isn't really any other place for such information other than in the Discord chats and chat logs between us, as is currently the state.

I'm not sure if my vision of the Realm makes sense, maybe it only does to me! Hahaha

— Klavvy (Baraklava) 02:07, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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We got time, don't worry! RRU was kicking for roughly 10 years before things broke down and contributions stopped, we have 10 years to build something that's even more beautiful together! 🙂

and I intend the Realm to go beyond what I want it to be, if others have things they want on the Realm that might make sense to add too

I guess I could also put it this way: The mission of the Research Realm is to preserve history of all facets of Lego, no matter how small or obscure

Maybe that's a more concise summary 😛

— Klavvy (Baraklava) 02:09, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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maybe the RR can be the home of the DDI wiki page that wikipedia was too scared to host

— MrPinball64 02:15, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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there's a lot that could be written about ddi but most of it isn't the kind of sources wikipedia would take

— Ringtail Raider 02:16, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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This too, when it comes to obscure Lego information, they can come from obscure sources... emails, or interviews with Lego employees, or even IRL conversations that are hard to verify/prove. The Realm would be fine hosting these if the material is good enough

And, funny enough, Brickipedia's pages on obscure stuff (like their Prototypes page) is usually very much haphazard, messy and incorrect, which is why the Realm would be a good place for such things But maybe I'm just rambling and repeating myself at this point xD

Also something relevant to myself and other rare parts collectors would be to identify fakes, catalogue where claimed rare/prototype parts originate from, I have seen several fakes get passed around as "Prototype of/for X", and I think it'd help reduce mistakes and scams if those were properly catalogued, but that again is just something that is probably not relevant to you guys, only rare parts collectors!

— Klavvy (Baraklava) 02:16, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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Brickipedia has a pic of a super obscure LoM book, but again doesn't cite the source of it

— Sadietail 02:24, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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That's another thing - not only sources, but the story. "Picture provided by [person]" gives nothing. Perhaps it came from a developer, and it would warrant a full interview, that can then be referenced. This is history that could potentially be lost if it's not archived properly!

— Klavvy (Baraklava) 02:26, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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It really would be nice to start a consistent, well cited wiki

Because every single existing project is lacking in some way, whether it's standards or being too hyperfocused on specific things and thus neglecting others

At the same time those other projects are still valuable

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it's common practice for wikis to adapt information from eachother, so it's not like we're starting from scratch

Guidelines for how pages are structured would be really nice because the multimedianess of lego has made most wikis very chaotic

Whereas something like the halo wiki is also based on something multimedia centric but it's very clean and easy to navigate because of the editing guidelines

I can already tell list of appearances sections on this wiki are gonna be really fun to look at

— EmeraldCoasttt 02:28, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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It has to have pages first! x3

But your input is really good, I agree! Build upon what's there but look for solid references for the information

I think the best way to start is to fill out the Rock Raiders starting page

I'm gonna pin this for reference:
https://wiki.researchrealm.net/index.php?title=LEGO_Rock_Raiders

This is a draft I made for what a page of a theme would look like, in this case Rock Raiders. Rock Raiders is a huge theme as it covers just about every type of media that Lego produces, it's very close to our hearts, and we have a ton of information on just about every facet of the theme and game. This page could thus be sort of a blueprint on what's covered, how it's covered, and if the information is put into the article itself, or just briefly and then the rest is in a separate article (i.e. 2 sentences about prototypes, then linking to a main article about "Rock Raiders prototypes/development")

Btw if any of you who don't have Wiki accounts want an account, DM me the username you want and I'll generate an account for you. I'm gonna streamline the account creation process later, but for now I want to keep the Wiki private (this page hasn't been linked outside of private chats so please don't tell anyone the Wiki is technically accessible yet, only the front page is)

— Klavvy (Baraklava) 02:37, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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Something I think should be decided early on is how we structure characters, objects, locations, etcetera

Whether we make different forms different articles (Axle (minifigure) is one article and Axle (Character) is another) or whether these should be different sections in the same article (with sub articles if there's a significant amount to talk about)

I'm personally all for the latter, keeps things much more organized and easier to navigate

RRU Knowledge base goes for the former approach and it's just as clunky as I remember it being

— EmeraldCoasttt 02:45, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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Definitely the latter, we make a page for an object I guess you could say? But also context changes things, so for example with a Loader Dozer:

• On the Rock Raiders PC game page, under vehicles (or under a page on vehicles in the game), it refers to what the Loader Dozer does in game
• However the page on the Loader Dozer is of the *set*, and with a section of how it behaves in the PC game, and the page on Rock Raiders vehicles links to this section directly

I think that makes sense? If it doesn't please give feedback - everything is up for debate here and I really want the Realm to not be "my Wiki", but something we build together as Lego nerdzzzz

We'll have to do some experimentation but we're not in a hurry - and it's not like it's gonna be wasted work, it's mostly a question of where to put what words! Writing the words is the hard part, figuring out a structure is more of a "feeling" thing that will just take time rather than work

— Klavvy (Baraklava) 02:57, 17 January 2023 (CET)

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Yeah, that makes sense! That's pretty much how it's structured on the halo wiki Barely related but it would not be hard to catalogue maps of the rock raiders levels, that'd be fun for their articles

— EmeraldCoasttt 03:00, 17 January 2023 (CET)